Curse

Jerichoz · Jul 10, 2009, 11:46 AM // 11:46

Hey Guys

i am playing two different builds at the moment but i want to decide which is better... i had some problems finding it out so i hope you guys can help me a bit

1st Build

Firemagic 12 + 3 + 1
Energy Storage 12 + 1

1. Arcane Echo
2. Liquid Flame
3. Rodgort's Invocation
4. EVAS
5. free pve skill slot (most used: ice imp, dwarv weapon, mindbender)
6. Meteor Shower
7. Elemental Attunement
8. Paininverter

2nd Build

Earthmagic 11 + 3 + 1
Deadly Arts 10
Energy Storage 10 + 1

1. AP
2. Eruption
3. Churning Earth
4. GoLE
5. Ebon Battle Standart of Honor
6. Ward against melee
7. Earth Attunement
8. Mindbender

Problems:

1st Build: Sometimes no energy, low dmg (fire .. :E )

2nd Build: Paininverter and EVAS are missing! I love those both skills its hard without them

So.. what you think is more win in HM PvE? Or do you have a better Build. Aah eh.. pl0x no ER Infuser etc... i hate healing

greeez

Ginger Hunter · Jul 10, 2009, 01:19 PM // 13:19

Personally i wouldnt even bother using fire magic in HM. The extra armour which HM foes gain just makes it next to useless. The earth build seems pretty solid and AP seems pretty good there. You might even consider swapping AP for unsteady ground.

If your looking for a change water magic can be pretty helpful with blurred vision, steam and a few snares.An elite like shatterstone or ward against harm will probably fit well. If you are in a team with physicals then great dwarven weapon should probably find its way onto your bar :P

The problem with eles in HM is that there damage just doesnt exsist so you have to try and take on a more supportive role.

smilingscar · Jul 10, 2009, 01:29 PM // 13:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerichoz

Hey Guys
2nd Build

Earthmagic 11 + 3 + 1
Deadly Arts 10
Energy Storage 10 + 1

1. AP
2. Eruption
3. Churning Earth
4. GoLE
5. Ebon Battle Standart of Honor
6. Ward against melee
7. Earth Attunement
8. Mindbender
...
2nd Build: Paininverter and EVAS are missing! I love those both skills its hard without them

This one has the most potential, but it could use a slight tweaking. I would drop Earth Attunement. I run a similar discord caller build, and whenever I need energy I just use GoLE + AP and I'm good to go. Don't worry about wasting the glyph on lower energy spells, it'll recharge with AP anyway. Between saving 30ish energy and gaining 15ish every time you kill, you should be fine. Drop the attunement for EVAS or something.

Parson Brown · Jul 10, 2009, 01:33 PM // 13:33

Second one is close to the one I use, but why not drop Ward/Melee for Pain Inverter? EBSH is all the ward you need.

I usually run something like:

1) EBSH (It's like a ward against Elements that protects against physical dmg too! With Charr bonus)

2) Churning Earth: (Mass KD)

3) Unsteady Ground: (More KD)

4) Open (often use Eruption for AoE Blind or Maelstrom for interrupts)

5) Technobabble (Mass Daze)

6) Pain Inverter (Quick Kills)

7) Aura of Restoration/Elemental Lord

8) Earth Attunement

Ele damage is pretty low in HM, so I focus on support and spreading conditions/interrupts. When the mood strikes me, I also love maintaining Great Dwarf Weapon on a couple melee henchmen. Level 30's can't hurt you when they're on their backs!

MagmaRed · Jul 10, 2009, 01:35 PM // 13:35

I always liked Air for HM, as a psuedo support/offense hybrid. What I use, and even toss on heroes is:

Blinding Surge
Enervating Charge
Shell Shock
Shock Arrow
Epidemic
Air Attunement
Aura of Restoration
Optional

The optional is the only slot you could fit a PvE skill into, and if you feel a need for more PvE skills you could take out Shock Arrow for something like Elemental Lord, or replace AoR for it. And since Shell Shock is providing the Cracked Armor, you could change that for something like Finish Him!

I just find the blind and weakness to be effective counters to the heavy hitting physicals in PvE, and Epidemic allows you to spread them fast. Cracked Armor allows your team to do more damage, and the innate Armor Penetration of Air Magic also helps deal more damage.

TheodenKing · Jul 10, 2009, 02:00 PM // 14:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parson Brown

1) EBSH (It's like a ward against Elements that protects against physical dmg too! With Charr bonus)

5) Mindbender (Mass Daze)

Ummm... EBSH increases damage. It doesn't protect against anything. You are thinking of EBSC.

Mindbender makes you move and cast faster... it has nothing to do with mass-daze.

Jerichoz · Jul 10, 2009, 02:10 PM // 14:10

Hey Guru!

Thanks for the replys

The Problem about dropping Earth Att. is: i use blessed insignias so i want to keep up an enchantment to gain +10 armor all the time :/
I already tried to drop AP for Unsteady ground.. but i started missing the energy and recharge bonus... so i just switched back.

I am quiet interested in Air Eles, but somewhere in guru i read that the armor penetration is quiet useless? And a friend told me that you never need to blind any1 but shiro

And another question: Churning Earth knocks foes moving with "unnormal speed". In HM every foe is faster isnt it? So this counts as "unnormal speed" or not?

greeez

~sry for english. :E not my best langauge

Lord Of Blame · Jul 10, 2009, 02:59 PM // 14:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerichoz

Hey Guru!

And another question: Churning Earth knocks foes moving with "unnormal speed". In HM every foe is faster isnt it? So this counts as "unnormal speed" or not?

No, their faster movement speed is considered their normal speed.

Helix Dreadlock · Jul 10, 2009, 03:27 PM // 15:27

In HM I would use wards as support for your team, since the damage is smaller because of the higher armor

MagmaRed · Jul 10, 2009, 03:39 PM // 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerichoz

And a friend told me that you never need to blind any1 but shiro

Wow.... I wouldn't listen to that friend very much. Any physical damage class is worth blinding, but some are important to blind. Rangers with interrupts will need to be blinded so your casters can be safe to cast. Lots of melee classes put out serious damage in HM, and blinding them stops that damage. Blinding a caster can even be useful depending on what they are using. Some of the Ele's will use a Conjure and wand you for large damage, so blinding them can be a benefit (though not required).

Blind is extremely useful, don't overlook it.

tcratty · Jul 10, 2009, 03:49 PM // 15:49

i use this for my ele/mes in hard mode
water magic 12+1+1
engery storage
the rest in domanation

1.glyph of lesser energy
2.rust
3.glowing ice
4.pain inverter
5.ebon vanguard assasin support
6.echo (elite)
7.mind rack
8.cry of pain (even after nerf it is still viable option)

double up on 4,5,or 8 depending on what type of group you are about to battle

double assasin support+cop+discord damage will take down any monk you will come across atleast i have never meet one that has lived thru it
i have vanquish all of elona and cantha with this build and half of tyria and i always brought discord heros

Jongal · Jul 10, 2009, 03:53 PM // 15:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Of Blame

No, their faster movement speed is considered their normal speed.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Churning_Earth

Wiki states that HM foes move faster than normal and therefore are knocked down by churning earth.

On Topic:

It's not much of an Ele build, but it kills fast (and delivers all prequisites for Discord):

1. AP
2. EVAS
3. YMLAD
4. Finish Him
5. Glyph of Sacrifice
6. Maelstrom
7. Meteor Shower,
8. Rez, Energy Blast, ???

Of course you can switch 6 and 7 for other spells that knock down/ interrupt w/o the need to spend attribute points (e.g. Churning Earth as mentioned above).

cataphract · Jul 10, 2009, 04:23 PM // 16:23

Like MagmaRed, I too like Air Magic in HM. This is what I've been running with Discord heroes:

AP, Enervating Charge, EVAS, GoLE, Blinding Flash, Lightning Orb, Pain Inventer, Mindbender

Jerichoz · Jul 11, 2009, 03:15 PM // 15:15

In PVE i kill Enemies like this:

1. Monk/Rit
2. Ele/Mes/Nec
3. war/der/rang etc.

So i think i would be useless at the beginning of the fight vs a pve group... and i guess thats the most important part. I mean.. blinding a monk?! hmpf.. what you think?

Chthon · Jul 11, 2009, 09:56 PM // 21:56

The second build is much stronger.

The first build looks like a weaker variant of the MB cookie-cutter that relies heavily on armor-sensitive damage.

The second does a decent job of generating a bunch of packets for EBSoH to stick armor-ignoring damage on. On top of that, it's got blind, KD (in HM), party block, and party buff.

Malician · Jul 12, 2009, 03:12 AM // 03:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerichoz

Hey Guys

i am playing two different builds at the moment but i want to decide which is better... i had some problems finding it out so i hope you guys can help me a bit

1st Build

Firemagic 12 + 3 + 1
Energy Storage 12 + 1

1. Arcane Echo
2. Liquid Flame
3. Rodgort's Invocation
4. EVAS
5. free pve skill slot (most used: ice imp, dwarv weapon, mindbender)
6. Meteor Shower
7. Elemental Attunement
8. Paininverter

2nd Build

Earthmagic 11 + 3 + 1
Deadly Arts 10
Energy Storage 10 + 1

1. AP
2. Eruption
3. Churning Earth
4. GoLE
5. Ebon Battle Standart of Honor
6. Ward against melee
7. Earth Attunement
8. Mindbender

Problems:

1st Build: Sometimes no energy, low dmg (fire .. :E )

2nd Build: Paininverter and EVAS are missing! I love those both skills its hard without them

So.. what you think is more win in HM PvE? Or do you have a better Build. Aah eh.. pl0x no ER Infuser etc... i hate healing

greeez

2nd build, obviously. No point in running Earth Attunement that I can think of. After all, you're glyphing the two high-mana spells.

Edit: I don't think it's worth taking a useless spell just so you can use Blessed.. is the upgrade from Survivor's really that valuable?

Jerichoz · Jul 12, 2009, 12:50 PM // 12:50

I just prefer +10Armor much more then 40 Health :/

But hmm.. maybe i could even use them cause of mindbender? dunno.. gonna try

greez

Kendel · Jul 13, 2009, 04:30 AM // 04:30

So use Aura of Restoration. Free healing and minor energy gain is far from useless. Although i'd consider the glyph useless, not the attunement. Attunement is a fire and forget energy management, on top of the return from AP. GoLE your having to recast after every death.

Fril Estelin · Jul 13, 2009, 05:01 AM // 05:01

I too use Air to use the 25% armor penetration, which is much more useful than the reduced damage from fire in HM, with:

Lighning Orb, Shock Arrow (energy management, has to be timed right), Lightning Strike, Invoke Lightning, (this slot can change, usually Lightning Bolt or Pain inverter), Mindbender, Serpent's Quickness, Air Attunement

I have a "cheap line" (shock arrow, lightning strike, lightning bolt) in case I'm low on energy, and an "expensive line" (lightning orb, Invoke Lightning) which can be draining.

Enon · Jul 13, 2009, 07:46 AM // 07:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Of Blame

No, their faster movement speed is considered their normal speed.

Wrong. The increased movement speed in HM is considered not normal, so Churning Earth will knock them down. (Unless they updated this...)

Regarding the builds:
The Earth builds seems to be a variant on the HM earth build I use myself. I personally would ditch Mindbender and Ward Against Melee and take YMLAD and EVAS instead. To counter the lack of Mindbender, just take a 40/40 set.

The Fire build is a different story. I would either take the standard SF build or run AP with Searing Heat, Teinai's Heat, GoLe, EVAS, YMLAD, Fire Attunement and an optional skill. If used correctly it does more than enough damage.

Oh, and on a side note: Fire DOES work in HM. So don't listen to all that "it's not armor ignoring"-crap. It just depends on the build.